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Turns - American Open Turn

Posted by Glenn Mills on May 24, 2011 08:33AM (7,060 views)

Many swim coaches are adamant about having their swimmers NOT GRAB the wall on an open turn...even when there's a wall to grab...and it's legal to grab it. THis advice can actually slow you down at the turn.

Why Do It:
If you're swimming in the United States, you'll find that most pools have gutters or lips or edges rather than flat walls. Use them! The gutters can give you extra leverage, and can aid you in spinning faster. They can provide a much safer turn in slippery pools.

How to Do It:
1.  I filmed these five competitive swimmers from a senior group... with no instruction other than "do a breaststroke turn." Each of them "grabs" the wall with their right hand.
2.  The important hand to watch is the left hand. As you approach the wall, you have to understand that the left hand (or right if you turn to the other side), barely grazes the wall... the left hand DOES NOT GRAB.
3.  With the right hand, you'll place your fingers just enough on the edge of the wall to gain the leverage to allow you to spin your body.
4.  Before the feet get to the wall, the "wall hand" will release and be placed quickly back into the water.

How to Do It Really Well (the Fine Points):
Do some tests. Turn with both hands under the water... then turn with both hands on the edge of the pool. Decide for yourself which is faster, and which positioning of the leveraging arm creates less resistance as it leaves the wall and gets placed over the head for the push.

If you swim outside the United States, you'll probably not have ledges and will have to do "flat-wall turns." That will be a focus of another video. If you're in the US, use the walls to help you spin... not to slow you down.

breaststroke, turn, Turns

Responses

Peter Leib	Responded May 24, 2011 04:17PM Great point Glenn...but many times you are training to compete in a pool with no gutters and high walls. Granted, it seems most pools in this country do have gutters and I vaguely recall using them to my advantage when I swam in the dark ages before Facebook and cable tv....
Juliette	Responded May 24, 2011 04:44PM Just one point of criticism....be aware not to grab too much that you pull yourself up...thats a big delaying factor...one can easally faal into this trap...(the Dad)
Glenn Mills	Responded May 24, 2011 04:56PM Hey Peter. I haven't swum in a flat wall pool in the last 20 years... basically since I stopped swimming international competitions (OK... closer to 30 years! ;)). Also, I absolutely still use the gutters to my advantage when I swim and PRAY whoever is next to me doesn't. :) Juliette (the Dad)... aren't you in France? Your pools should have flat walls at both ends in all of your competitions... I could be wrong there as well. I got nervous for a bit, as I knew this was a "controversial" subject to so many coaches... so I did a quick search for the most exciting swim meet that's held each year in the US. The NCAA Championships. Let's take a close look at the 2011 100 Breaststroke. 1) Look at the walls... gutters. 2) Look at the swimmers hands during the turns. ABOVE. Edited May 24, 2011 04:58PM
wonderboy	Responded May 24, 2011 05:26PM You are correct, there is a very quick grab that happens with most swimmers when there is a gutter available. However, I would argue that it's not the grab that creates a faster spin, it's the position of the hand on top of the gutter. The hand on top of the gutter creates leverage to bring the legs up faster. In addition, if I'm teaching younger kids, I think it's a good drill to teach them not to grab, because it eliminates the pull in and out of the water. Will they grab in competition? Probably.
wonderboy	Responded May 24, 2011 05:30PM Also, the NCAA pool is in our state, and we swim there numerous times throughout the season. Unless I'm mistaken, the wall is flat at the starting end, so you need to know how to turn without a gutter there (the video confirms this).
Glenn Mills	Responded May 24, 2011 05:35PM This is what's great though. I also work with young swimmers, and I teach them this. If they pull in... I correct them. We all have different styles which is cool... I also use the term "grab" when in reality... it's more of a very strong hold with the fingers. A grab doesn't really occur but it is about making the connection with the top of the gutter... something I see coaches continuing to get their swimmers to avoid. Also... in thinking of the "pulling in"... collapsing to the wall is much different than pulling in, and again, many people confuse the two which is something that needs to be addressed as well. If you look at the rather attractive swimmer at the :20 second mark (underwater)... you'll see the arm collapse to the wall. If not aware of the entire process, someone could confuse this as a "pull in". In reality... it's momentum.
Glenn Mills	Responded May 24, 2011 05:41PM Wonderboy... are we watching the same video? I went to the NCAA video on YouTube... pulled it up as 1080 and went full screen. Both ends are absolutely low walls with the swimmers using the wall to aid in the rotation of the turns. Did I read your post wrong?
wonderboy	Responded May 24, 2011 05:53PM Again, I could be mistaken, but I seem to remember having to turn without grabbing at that pool, but maybe I'm thinking of a different pool. Regardless, it seems to me that it's about how you define a "grab" versus a touch on top of the wall. These are elite swimmers, and it can be hard to tell. I wouldn't define what they do as a "grab", but more of a re-direction of momentum, even if their fingers are on top of the wall. Grab to me seems like something that would be counter to what I would want, because swimmers can interpret that incorrectly. Probably just a semantic thing, as I agree with your overall point.
wonderboy	Responded May 24, 2011 05:58PM Oh, and I looked at the video, and my connection isn't allowing me to go HD and see exactly what is happening. Some of us don't have the top of the line equipment to analyze it Zapruder style, like you do Glenn. Maybe I'm thinking of the Michigan pool? I'm sure there are others.
Glenn Mills	Responded May 24, 2011 06:01PM Yeah... that's what I thought too. I just got off the phone with a good friend who works for one of the major pool construction companies (and used to be a world class breaststroker). I asked him how many flat wall pools he's built in the last 10 years in the US. You ready? Zero. According to "my source". USA Swimming is against them. NCAA are against them. They are required in meets that have to conform to international standards... which high school and NCAA meets do not. The national championships and Grand Prix meets will typically have flat walls... but most USAS meets do not. So... hence the reason for this post. I try to present material that the majority of swimmers can take advantage of. Only a very small percentage of swimmers will ever take part in the meets that require flat walls. So... for the rest of you, watch the focus point above, and improve your wall speed. For those of you heading to the Olympics... tell your coach I said hi, and great job!
Glenn Mills	Responded May 24, 2011 06:02PM I forgot to add... my source did tell me, that no health department in the US would approve a flat wall pool anymore. There HAS to be movement of water to the gutter on all sides. Flat walls are an aftermarket addition to pools in the US... not the way a pool is built.
Glenn Mills	Responded May 24, 2011 06:03PM Love it WB. It's FIOS and I LOVE IT! :)
wonderboy	Responded May 24, 2011 06:23PM So, it's an aftermarket addition to add flat walls? Interesting. So, pools in the U.S. are built to not adhere to International Standards, and they have to adjust them? What is the reason behind the difference in standards? Is there an advantage to the flat wall that is the reason for the International Standard, or are they just less interested in health standards? Am I getting so old that I'm remembering flat walls that never existed in any pools in the U.S.? Do the U.S. Open pools adhere to International Standards, and thus that's what I'm remembering?
wonderboy	Responded May 24, 2011 06:27PM Oh, I'm thinking out loud here, is it an easy adjustment, so perhaps they can change them for big meets? If so, maybe they change the Minnesota pool when the Grand Prix comes around.
Glenn Mills	Responded May 24, 2011 06:33PM Barbara and I were just talking and we could both name about 5 pools that we each knew had flat walls... but they're very old. I think our pools are designed with the codes of the local health departments, and pool manufactures would have to adhere to those first. I can't imagine the health department really gives a "you know what" about a pool meeting FINA standards. I'm sure there is someone who knows a ton more about that stuff than I do. Yes on the changing the pads for the big meets. All that stuff may come from USA Swimming.. they may bring with when they get to different pools. Logos are already on the pads at the big meets... so they probably bring their own supply. Just my thoughts... who knows.
Juliette	Responded May 25, 2011 05:46AM Glenn,...we are in The Netherlands, Rotterdam to be precise. And here we have some old pools with the possibility to grab,....or get your feet stuks in a flipturn.....
GW	Responded May 28, 2011 10:51AM Glenn, In the UK most competition pools now have flat walls, especially with the timing pads added. I think the big point is the collapsing into the wall rather than pulling up and in, usually obvious by the swimmer coming well out of the water at the turn. Most training pools, on the other hand, have gutters. We talk about SISO (Straight in Straight out) to try to avoid the pull. I accept the 'science' of using the gutter / lip but we coach not to 'grab' because then they have no fears on a flat wall. I'm also open to any suggestions for drills / practices to speed up the gymnastic part of driving the legs into the wall fast to keep momentum and not lose any. Any ideas?
Glenn Mills	Responded May 28, 2011 11:50AM Drills for breaststroke turns? Do you have this one yet? http://www.goswim.tv/entries/745/go-swim-b...
Juliette	Responded May 28, 2011 01:13PM excelent one.....how could I miss this one????
GW	Responded May 28, 2011 02:24PM Is the DVD still available for sale, Glenn?
Barbara Hummel	Responded May 29, 2011 12:14PM HI, GW. Yes, Dave's Turns & Pullouts DVD is still available for sale. Click Glenn's link in the previous comment, and look for the ADD TO CART button.
GW	Responded May 29, 2011 01:39PM Thanks, Barbara, I'llget on it tomorrow

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